and not just on Shaykh Taj ad-Deen al-Hilali but on other irresponsible imams and Muslims in general that make outrageous and inflammatory comments.
The explanation and apology. Al-Hilali like the Pope has apologized not so much for his words which of course he says have been taken out of context but for the reactions of others to his words. Apparently, the resulting stress due to the uproar over his comments has left him confined to his bed on a ventilator. And we ask Allah to restore his health.
Alhamdulillah, I have always been protected in never having to hear first hand such ridiculous and offensive comments while attending lectures.
A few years ago, at one local masjid two speakers made some offensive statements about women, something about women’s behavior in the masjid and another about how in paradise there will be no women because everyone will take on the male form and he even resorted to some pseudo-science about the x and y chromosomes to back it up. Needless to say, the community led by the sisters raised their complaints and both were publicly censured and banned from speaking on the minbar.
Then there are the nincompoops from groups like al-Muhajiroun or whatever their name is now that are desperately seeking celebrity and seem more concerned with competing for airtime with the most outrageous statements than in trying to exemplify the manners and character of the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam as seen in his letters and agreements with non-Muslims specifically with the Jews and Christians.
The media is complicit in this vicious circle. The more outrageous the comment the more airtime it gets and the more people ask where are the moderate Muslims. When Muslims condemn injustice and terrorism and speak in a sensible, reasoned, and logical fashion they get no airtime in the media or get detained at the airport and have their visas revoked on grounds of “national security”.
I remember sitting with my sister who is not Muslim while CNN was on and a journalist was interviewing British Muslims to find out “why they are so angry”. And one guy ostensibly the average bearded young Muslim surrounded by a group of other Muslims said that “Islam does not teach us to turn the other cheek, it says if you lay a hand on me, I’ll send ya to the cemetery”.
And in my mind, I’m thinking about all the examples of the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam returning harshness with gentleness and the ayat about any eye for an eye but forgiveness is better, and to not transgress in our responses.
My sister, on the other hand started laughing and said, “that’s not good press for you guys”.
Which brings me to another point about foreign-born imams in western countries many (not all) of whom just don’t get it. They do not understand the people who were born in the country they have chosen to settle in, they look at us through the prism of their home country, dis(respect) their current country, and in my opinion would be better off going back to their home country permanently. Yes, I said it, Go Home.
Which is another reason why I am heartened to see the leadership in large Muslims organizations like ISNA slowly moving from the generation of foreign-born heavily accented immigrants to Muslims that were born in the country that they reside in and represent.
I am not dissing immigrants in general because my parents are immigrants and I believe in having a very open and pragmatic immigration policy. But I am dissing those immigrants who come to a country and have nothing good to say about it, all the while praising their idealised pristine home country. If it was so good back there, why remain here? These are the same people who would exert their utmost effort to remain here if the government tried to deport them.
As one of our teachers said: Those in the West that want to make hijrah are usually the ones who should remain here to benefit the community. And the ones who never speak about making hijrah are the ones who need to go the most.
Side Note: The dictionary definition of the word nincompoop is a foolish or stupid person. And while I do not like insults on my site I think this an apt description of these people from Al-Muahjiroun/Al-Ghuraba/The Saved Sect.
Update: A more sympathetic portrait of Shaykh Taj ad-Din al-Hilal
Update #2 – Shaykh Hilili came to Australia on a tourist visa and remained in Australia after his visa expired. He and his supporters fought against his deportation to Egypt and he has been allowed to remain in Australia permanently.
Update #3 – Highly selective comments by Hilali. His command of the English language is not the best but I like the ones about deportation and the Axis of Evil i.e. Bush, Blair, and Howard.
Update #4 – Is One Offensive Cleric More Important than 38 Reasonable Ones?
Shout outs to Austrolabe, Samaha, Darvish, and Shaharazed.
Ify Okoye 
Here is a transcript of his speech, as reported by SBS’s website.
Thanks Mezba, I see you didn’t click on my links. 🙂
The first link with al-Hilali’s name highlighted is the same link.
lol.. no I didn’t realize they were links! sorry.
Awesome post! I’m tired of all of the idiotic statements and things that get done in the name of our religion as well.
AsSalamu ‘Alaikum,
Jazakam Allahu Khairan for this post.
Today, we have too many people saying this and that when Islam is attacked.
When the kuffar threw a rotton dead animal on the Prophet (SAW), he did nothing but made Dua.
There is no difference whether you send comments to the pope and send him to his bed versus beating him up and sending him to his bed and making him weak. May Allah (SWT) grant us all wisdom in all our affaris. Ameen
Asalamu alaykum,
Mezba: lol, I actually feel better now because I was beginning to get a bit paranoid that people were actually reading my blog but I am reassured that most people aren’t actually paying that close attention to what I write.
Samaha: Welcome to Muslim Apple, I see we were posting at the same time on Wa Salaam.
Nihal: We could all benefit from speaking less and reading more about the life of the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam. How hard it is for us to speak good or remain silent.
asalamu aleykum
maybe what the imam said is not so smart as you may see it, peronally i dont see anything wrong or incorrect in what he said,
in fact its very true..
and thats why Allah mentions the adultress before the adulter unlike the theif then the female theif..
whats so ridiciolus about what he said? offensive yes am sure it is..
and keep in mind those who ‘choose’ to settle in have made a greif sin and should remember what our prophet saws said
“I have nothing to do with any Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.”
(Sunan Abu Dawood, 2274; Classed saheeh, al-Irwaa’, 5/30)
the hadeeth crystal clear and no wonder making hijrah is obligatory under concensus of the scholars of the ummah, and nothing negates or makes kharq (hole) in the concensus (ijmaa) once it is made.
and when you tell the imams to go home and rely on your indiginous hardly educated people or those whom we view as scholars due to spread ignorance then you are destroying yourself by your own hands.
and as you quoted one of your teachers which makes perfect sense in what he asserts behind his advice for those to stay,, that is those who want to leave are the best of your communities coz they respond to the call of Allah and his prophet saws..
many cite prophet Muhammad saws when the muslimeen were at times of weakness and yet they forget that prophet Muhammad saws orderd the killing of three poets who use to insult him and the muslimeen, and other occasions where punishments were used.
salamu aleykum
and one more thing
really do you think shame on you is the right title for this post? shame on who the imam?!!
the attitude towards our brothers and sisters is not so supportive
and when one of the poles of darkness in the world insults Islam and our prophet saws we are quick to make excuses if not try and make him understand when we know he does and yet when our brothers say something we are quick to label their speech if we dont label them till the point where their health deteriorates
la hawla walla quwata illa billah
may Allah protect the sincere of our imams and give the sincerity to those who lack it.
Asalamu alaykum,
Q8i: I do think shame on you is the appropriate title. And yes, shame on the al-Hilali and other imams and Muslims and non-Muslims who make outrageous and inflammatory remarks. Shame on all of them for their reprehensible comments. I do not like to make excuses for anyone’s bad behavior. If a person wants to be taken seriously and to be given respect they must first be serious, sincere, and deserving of that respect.
An excerpt from his speech is available and the main points I find reprehensible are:
1. His claim that rapists are not responsible for their actions. A statement he has since apologized for and retracted.
2. His claim that women are 90% responsible for adultery.
3. His claim that the punishment of 65 years in prison for rape was too harsh and without mercy.
The people I am telling to go home are those who claim that their home country is so great and their present country is so terrible. They have the freedom to make these incendiary statements here in western countries that if they made back home would land them in jail or worse. These same people are often the ones that fled their home country because they were suffering persecution.
It is no mistake that the indigenous people in a land know it and its inhabitants better and are able to speak the language and are able to understand or relate to the culture and customs of that land better than an immigrant. So a scholar from Togo would be equipped to speak and relate to the Togolese people better than one from China.
Wa salaam
Asslamu Alikum,
Honestly for the lack of time, I couldn’t follow all the topics being discussed but I would like to comment on what my brother Q8ibloger said:
1- First: There’s a dispute over the Isnad of this Hadeeth.
a) Al Bukhari, Abu Hatem Al Razy, Abu Dawood, Al Daraqutny, Al Iraqy, and Ibn Abdelhady all said it’s Mursal (meaning the chain of narration is not connected between the narrators).
b) Ibn Hazm, Al Bayhaqy, Ibn Katheer, and Al Albany said it’s correct.
c) Ibn Hajjar said: “it’s isnad is correct, but Al Bukhari said it’s Mursal).
D) I – personally – would say follow the first group of scholars.
E) Does this mean that the hadeeth can not be used as a proof in jurisprudence?
The answer is: Yes, it can be used because: 1- The four school of thoughts used to use Al Hadeeth Al Mursal as a proof in jurisprudence with minor differences between them according the conditions of its acceptances. 2- There’s a verse [in Surah 4 An-Nisa’ Verse 97] that says: {Verily, as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was Obligatory for them), they angels (angels) say (to them): “In what (condition) were you?” They reply: “We were weak and oppressed on the earth.” They (angels) say: “Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?” Such men will find their abode in Hell – What an evil destination!}.
2- Second: Is there a consensus(ijma’a) in this matter?
I don’t know. Brother Q8ibloger would have to present a proof for this. This doesn’t mean I’m refuting the rulling. Again, I’m not refuting the ruling, but we need a proof by one the scholars in which he states that there’s a consensus of all Mujtahideen (not any scholars) in one particular century (as Sh. Abdullah Al Fawzan explains the words of Abdulmo’men Al Baghdady Al Hanbali in his book Qawa’ed Al Usool wa Ma’aqed Al Fsool).
3- Third: This is what Ibn Taymiyyah says in this issue and it’s very brilliant:
“It is not permissible to live in a land where he/she can not establish/perform their religious rituals, affairs, and . Therefore, the residence between Christians, Jews, or any sect of disbelievers is not permissible if they confine the Muslim from performing his religion. And for this matter, it was not permissible in the early times for the Muhajiroon to reside in Mecca, and the Prophet peace and blessings be upon him has only allowed them to reside in Mecca for three days after performing the Umra, so if the person was able to perform his religious affairs in it (meaning: the land of disbelievers) then it is permissible as long as there is a benefit from this residence, since Prophet Yusuf peace be upon him resided in Egypt in the times of a Pharoh and it was a land of disbelievers, and he (Prophet Yusuf) performed righteous and just deeds, and called for the religion of Allah as much as he could” (Collections of Ibn Taymiyyah’s Fatawa 28/68).
He also says: “And the best place for residence is the place where the person will accomplish more worship to Allah, and his residence in the land of disbelievers or sinners or innovators better than his residence in the land of Eman, because his residence in it by calling for the religion of Allah, and correcting the actions of wrong doers by his hands and tongue” (Collections of Ibn Taymiyyah’s Fatawa 28/39 and 48).
He said more in this matter, but this is the two most important parts.
* First: The religious ruling of the Prophets before Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessing be upon them all, are considered to be religious ruling for us (Muslims) as well unless a proof comes to show otherwise.
* Second: Some scholars said it is even permissible in some cases to hold governmental positions in the lands of disbelievers (since Prophet Yusuf peace and blessing be upon him held the position of Minister of Financial Affairs in a land ruled by a disbeliver) with the conditions mentioned in Ibn Taymiyyah’s words.
and Allah knows best.
I think the issue here is: Who can say what? and how?! I’m not talking about identities per se, but I’m talking religiously. Maybe sister Muslim Apple can do some research on this. Research question: What are degrees of scholarship in Islam? Present your outcome and we’ll give you feedback. Please nevermind my directing. I’m just trying to get away from personal or specific matters and instead: establish a common ground in which we can all agree upon and then it can be our scale that we always refer to.
May Allah bless all of you.
Forget to say in my previous post: “Q8ibloger: brother, I love you in the sake of Allah”.
And for the rest of you: I bear witness that since I knew Q8ibloger I always felt a zeal in him for following the foot steps of the Prophet peace and blessing be upon him and a strong vibe to keep people he knows intact with the Quran and the Sunnah.
Me again!
I said in my first post: “Mursal (meaning the chain of narration is not connected between the narrators).” For a chain of narration not to be connected many conditions, and for almost each condition there’s a description for it.
Scholars use the word: Mursal to refer to one of two famous meanings (a researcher has collected 13 different conditions of break in the chain of narration in which different scholars called it Mursal!):
1- It is when a Tabe’ee (the person who never saw the Prophet peace and blessing be upon but saw one or more Companion(s)) say: “The Prophet peace and blessings be upon him said:….”. The Tabe’ee in this condition does not mention from whom did he hear this hadeeth, a fellow tabe’ee or a companion? and since we don’t know if the fellow tabe’ee is one whose narration can be accepted, therefore the scholars of hadeeth say this type of narration is weak. But as we said before the four schools of thought can use such narration as a proof with certain conditions but this is not its place for it to be mentioned. Maybe I’ll explain it in a post on my blog insha’ Allah.
2- It is when a break between two narrators in any part of the chain of narration occurs, not necessarily the Tabe’ee and the Companion.
These are two famous uses for the word Mursal by the scholars of Hadeeth.
Ok, so: the hadeeth I was discussing before and I said we should follow the group of scholars that said it’s Mursal..which kind of the two is it? It’s the first kind.
I hope this post makes it more clear for some of you.
SubhanAllah, there are still “imams” who quote such garbage. Oudhobillah, I can’t believe it…people still blame a woman if she is raped, there are people like this in every religion. Just look at the media, whenever a woman is raped, they bring up her past, claim she is lying and blame her. Anything that happens to a woman is her fault ::insert rolling eyes smiley:: May Allah enlighten him…
Asalamu alaykum,
Hanbali-Salafi-Anthroplogist (and I thought my name was long):
Welcome to Muslim Apple. I appreciate your comments yet I do not think we are speaking about the same issue. The question for me is not who is a scholar in Islam and I will give Shyakh al-Hilali his titles as Shaykh and as Mufti of Australia and New Zealand due to his age and Islamic learning.
My issues with him are two: His personal commentary offered in that khutbah which have nothing to do with religion and the fact that many of these immigrant imams have little understanding of the culture, people, and land that they have chosen to settle in. The imam came on a tourist visa fleeing from Egypt and overstayed. And when the Australian government tried to deport him fought against being deported.
His inability despite his explanation and apology to see the error of his thoughts tells me that he does not understand the people and culture of his chosen land and so how can he lead them in the most beneficial way? Muslims raised in the west, would be better able to understand and relate to the people he is in charge of guiding and in such case perhaps he should return to Egypt the land of his birth so that he can guide the people there.
By the way, I also like anthropology.
Amani: I feel it, too.
You made some very good points sister. I also hear how bad this country is; how bad it is this way and that way, until my ears are stuffed. The problem is the people complaining are the ones taking advantage of the system, and living nicely and don’t even want to go back to their home countries. I was in a Muslim country for a while or what was supposed to be a Muslim country, but I could not recognize it as such.
Honestly, I think I can practice my faith much better over here, and that is very sad to say but true. I think Western Muslims are carrying the deen, and in the forefront are women and not men. 60% of college university students studying Islam are women. Women are taking the lead in the revival of Islam.
It is a shame that some Muslim men still want to put down women when the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) respected women highly and Islam gives a high status to women. In a hadith it says: paradise lies under the feet of mothers. The early Muslims respected women, and women helped to carry the deen and took part in many affairs in society and were not just regulated to the kitchen. Because of the imbalance between men and women, we see many of the evils and extremism coming out of some so called Muslims. The balance has to return because the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had the balance of both and he is the best of creation.
Thanks for this post.
Wa Salaam
Assalam Alikum,
– Muslim Apple: Good for you, social sciences are important, we hope to see more Muslims studying social sciences. Thank you for organizing my post.
The comments are in fact blatant. You can’t be saying this to such audience or even any audience. I think in the sensitive issues we need to stick to the words of the Prophet peace and blessings be upon him instead of our own.
But yes.. Muslim women have to wear Hijab and the Muslim (or non-Muslim) woman who is not correctly veiled or not veiled at all has a chance of getting rapped. Does this mean she’s blamed for it, and the man should not be punished? Of course not, the man should be strongly punished, and her punishment was the fact that she got raped because she disobeyed her Lord. She refused to have the protection promised for those who have piety. Could I even say this to an American audience? ahhh, I don’t know! It’s very tough. Again, the issue is very sensitive; and there are different ways for calling women to wear Hijab other than the one he used.
– M. Shahin, I only one comment on your post.
“In a hadith it says: paradise lies under the feet of mothers.”
This hadeeth is not correct. Al Uqaily (student of Al Bukhari), Ibn Adiyy, Ibn Al Qaisarany, Al Thahaby, and Al Albany said this hadeeth is Munkar (wrong narration). Although, Albany once said Mawdoo’ (meaning: lied) and once said Da’eef (meaning: weak).
Jazak Allah khairan for the insight, I agree with you that Islam did raise women to a high status and gave her respect and protection. The only concern I have that when we are quoting the Prophet peace and blessings be upon we have to be very careful.
Oh, I need to say that what has been stated in the quotes – that has been narrated from him by the media – are not only blatant but they are obviously wrong!
– Whoever commits rape IS RESPONSIBLE for his own actions and should be SEVERELY PUNISHED.
– “90% of women are responsible for the rape”. We can’t determine the percentage, but let’s say there are some women who do in fact share some responsibility.
and Allah knows best
One last comment:
– One of the proofs that show that women share a responsibility but NOT ALL responsibility:
Surah 33 Al-Ahzab Verse 32: {O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft in speech, lest he is whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner.}
Asalamu alaykum wa Rahmatullah,
I agree M. that even with the obstacles we can practice Islam here better and more freely than in many Muslim countries.
Hanbali-Salafi: The problem with your first argument about a woman who is uncovered being partially to blame is that it ignores the fact that women who are properly covered also get raped. Rape is not simply about clothing, it’s a crime of power and aggression acted out in a sexual manner.
Allah addresses the men first and commands them with:
And then He addresses the women so in reality the onus is on the men first to exercise self-restraint and to not eyeball much less assault and rape women.
And Allah knows best.
Thats a pretty amazing post. You’re right, controversy sells. How to be ‘militantly…moderate’? Hmm….
1- “The problem with your first argument about a woman who is uncovered being partially to blame is that it ignores the fact that women who are properly covered also get raped.”
But do they get raped as much?! Anyways, Hijab is not only about the “covering”, it’s a whole life-style, so be aware of this. And again the ayah clearly states that they share “a responsability” – not “the responsability” -:
{..then be not soft in speech, lest he is whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner}.
And here’s another proof for you:
It’s narrated that the Prophet peace and blessings be upon him said: “Any woman who puts perfume and walk by men so they smell her smell she’s an adultress”. The hadeeth is narrated by: Al Imam Ahmad in Al Musnad, Ibn Khuzayma in his Saheeh, Ibn Hiban in his Saheeh, Al Hakim in his Mustadrak and said: it’s narration is correct, Al Tirmidhi in his Sunan and said: Hasan Saheeh (correct narration), Abu Dawood in his Sunan, Al Nasa’ey in his Sunan, Al Bayhaqy in his Sunan Al Kubra, Al Darimy in his Musnad, and others. I can provide you with the volume, page, and hadeeth number of every source, alhamdulilah.
Al Imam Al Manawy said in explaining this hadeeth: “meaning: she is for this reason exposed for “Zena” (meaning: adultry in all its forms including rape), seeking its ways, inviting its does, for this reason she’s called an adultress figuratively, and the places where masses of men hang out never lacks the presence of someone who has a dirty heart or desire, and maybe the desire defeats him and he insists on the wrong doing and the “zena” (adultry) then occurs” [Source: Fayd Al Qadeer 1/276].
2- {And when the young female infant buried alive is questioned, for what crime was she killed.} [Takwir 81/8-9].
This verse has no proof to what you say, because an infant female, in fact, did not do any crime!
3- And is practicing Islam better in foreign countries than Islamic countries? I think your opinion is just a sweeping generalizations and you need to examine individual cases by itself. And after all, Allah says: {Shall We then treat the Muslims (believers of Islamic Monotheism, doers of righteous deeds) like the Mujrimun (criminals, polytheists and disbelievers, etc.)? What is the matter with you? How judge you? Or have you a Book wherein you learn, that you shall therein have all that you choose?}.
4- My final remark, I urge everyone who talks in a religious matter to remember these two verses:
A) {Say (O Muhammad peace and blessing be upon him):”(But)the things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are Al-Fawahish (great evil sins and every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse) whether committed openly or secretly, sins (of all kinds), unrighteous oppression, joining partner (in worship) with Allah for which He has given no authority, and saying things about Allah of which you have no knowledge} Surah 7 Al-A’raf Verse 33
B) {And follow not (O man i.e., say not, or do not or witness not) that of which you have no knowledge. Verily, the hearing, and the sight, and the heart, of each of those one will be questioned (by Allah)} Surah 17 Al-Isra Verse: 36.
and Allah knows best.
Correction: I made some typing errors when I was copying what Al Imam Al Manawy said. So here’s what he said after the errors have been fixed, alhamdulilah.
Al Imam Al Manawy said in explaining this hadeeth: “meaning: she is for this reason exposed for “Zena” (meaning: adultry in all its forms including rape), seeking its ways, inviting its doers, for this reason she’s called an adultress figuratively, and the places where masses of men hang out never lack the presence of someone who has a dirty heart, and maybe the desire defeats him and he insists on the wrong doing and the “zena” (adultry) then occurs” [Source: Fayd Al Qadeer 1/276].
Summary of my argument:
1- A man who commits rape should be severly punished.
2- The woman who is raped may share a responsability (and the percentage of the repsonsability varies) of the rape incident, yet the man is still the one who will face the severe punishment (jald or rajm).
3- It is important for every Da’eyya (religious preacher) to follow the Sunnah, exercise a great deal of wisdom, and be aware of the language and culture of the people he’s calling.
4- The goal of the preacher is not to advice, remember, order, etc the people, but the goal is to make people reach the right path, and in the end the accomplishment of this aim is not in his hands. If the preacher knows this, then he’ll know that any methodology can be used – as long as it does not contradict the Sunnah – to call people to Allah, and the variation of this methodology – according to the nature of the society he is – in is a normal thing, and in fact it is the Sunnah.
and Allah knows best.
HSB, you stated: But do they get raped as much?! Anyways, Hijab is not only about the “covering”, it’s a whole life-style, so be aware of this. And again the ayah clearly states that they share “a responsability” – not “the responsability”
I feel that is an misinformed statement. Maybe you should ask Mukhtar Mai, who was raped by a tribal order in Pakistan, or the thousand upon thousand of women who are raped in Darfur Sudan. Many of them wear hijab according totheir culture. These women are raped while in their homes, in their beds, in their hijab. Besides any psychologist can tell you that rape is rarely a sexual crime. It is an act of violence and aggression. Muslim women, hijabi women are raped everyday in Pakistan, Sudan, India and every corner of the globe. Instead of wasting energy defending what the Shaykh said, you should educate yourself about the condition of our Muslimat in the regions I mentioned….
As salaamu alaikum
AS far as practicing Islam the west I would like to say. I am an american revert to Islam since 12 years alhamdulillah. I can say that during the 1900s it was much easier to practice Islam. After 2001 I would say for me it became very dificult. There may be a difference for men and women.
First of all I experienced very much discrimination at my job. A job I held for 10 years. As a white american I had no idea of what discrimination the african american has endured was untill then. A man with a full large beard can not easily find another job( Its almost impossible especially if he is muslim). Some will say just shave it whats the problem. The problem is its haram to shave the beard as far as I know and salafi- anthropologist maybe can throw all of the dalleel at me. But as far as I know the prophet peace and blessing of Allah(ta aala) has commanded the growing of the beard, and all 4 madhabs have said it is haram to cut it.
Secondly; it had become very difficult to pay zakat since all muslim charities were closed down by the U.S. govt..
Thirdly; I was forced to sneak and hide in order to pray when I was a work or out of my home. I lived in the south and americans know how southern rednecks are. I could not concentrate on my salah. I was interupted many times during my salah by people that thought I was going to blow up something. I had the police called on me for praying as well. I was forced to hide behind buildings and generally did not feel safe.
Fourthly, when out with my wife i was called names and forced to confront people.
Fithly; I have children and I am 100% sure that none of you can bring children up to learn Islam and to hate kufr in that society it is not possible. They learn Santa, easter bunny, halloween, then later they learn dating, sex, drugs, music and dancing. Its not possible to keep them away from the haram. Everywhere you go all haram is there in the open and it is normal and I am the one that is wrong.
I have been living with my familly for more than three years in a muslim country and alhamdulillah it is much better and easier to practice Islam. My children have learned arabic, islamic studies, memorized much quran, and they even teach me somethings I dont know alhamdulillah. There are other problems living in a muslim country first of all it is a different culture, and some people are not good muslims. But at least they are muslim and not kafir. Unfortunately many dont know manners. Muslims should be the the best mannered, but you will find that the westener kafir has better manners than the muslims. I dont think it is right to prefer the kafir over the muslim though.
I have heard muslims in america say many times that they can practice Islam more freelly in america, but I dont see how. Maybe you went to the wrong country.
Another point i would like to make is that it is quite obvious that the west and america in particular is at war with and trying to stop the spread of and destroy Islam, and kill muslims. How can any muslim be satisfied with and support that? Just wanted to throw that in there.
AsSalamu ‘Alaykum…
Sr. MuslimApple stated HER opinion about what the Shaykh said in his Khutbah. This is a blog, that’s the point.
SubhanAllah..I don’t understand. Whoever disagrees with her, they can keep their opinions to themselves, because you know that by typing your opinions/arguments in the comments section of a WordPress supported blog won’t concinvce anyone.
I used to be the same way. Wallahi, I got so many headaches by arguing with people who didn’t agree with me. I used to come back to the computer every chance I got.
For the Prophet (SAW) said,
Abu Umaamah, may Allaah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam said: “I guarantee an abode within the boundary of Paradise for the one who refrains from arguing even if he was correct; and an abode in the middle of Paradise for the one who abandons lying even in jest; and an abode in the sublime part of Paradise for the one whose manners are honourable.” (Abu Dawud).
May Allah (SWT) give us the tawfeeq to impliment this Hadith into our lives and save us for our own Jahilliyah. Ameen
Amani Jabber, my argument is clear:
“2- The woman who is raped may share a responsability (and the percentage of the repsonsability varies) of the rape incident, yet the man is still the one who will face the severe punishment (jald or rajm).”
And your advice is well taken, jazaki Allahu khairan.
Amani Jabber said:
“Instead of wasting energy defending what the Shaykh said, you should educate yourself about the condition of our Muslimat in the regions I mentioned…. ”
May Allah forgive you. It’s always nice to be nice to your fellow Muslims, regardless of disagreements; but it seems this is something many can’t do these days.
Sister, I don’t know who is the shaikh, I never seen him, heard him, not met him ever in my life. Plus, I never defended what he said at all!!
I try to approach religious matters academically, and we all make mistakes. I succeed sometimes and times other I don’t. I need my fellow Muslims to direct me and point out points of error in my argument so we all can benefit.
I’m sorry if my comment offended you, but some of your comments offended me greatly. You seem to think that not many hijabi women get raped, and I wanted to express to you that you’re wrong. As I stated, many Muslimat are raped everyday. Rape is a crime of violence; if you don’t believe that just consider what happens during war. Women are raped..it happened in Iraq, in Sudan and in numerous other countries. How can a woman tempt a man from the confnes of her home?
Additionally, men are not animals, even if a women does not wear hijab, they should lower their gazes, as the Qur’an Kareem states. Where in the Qur’an or Hadith does it state that women bear responsibility for rape?? Please educate me on that one…
I’m now going to take my own advice and quit wasting my time 🙂
I don’t think the blog post was discussing rape issues in India, Pakistan, and Sudan!! Because if it was, I would have written a different post. So, chill!
If you read my post carefully you would have been educated.
It’s useless to apologize for a mistake you keep repeating. The apology becomes more offensive 🙂
If you walk in a street full of thieves and you know it is full of thieves, then you get stolen. Aren’t you responsible in a sense?!!!
Does this mean EVERYONE around the WORLD who gets stollen IS in fact RESPONSIBLE?!!!!
Asalamu alaykum,
DM, welcome to Muslim Apple.
I’ve met other white European American reverts that say the same thing about experiencing racism for the first time and their genuine shock at the novelty of being visibly discriminated against simply because they are Muslim.
I think it easier although not perfect for Muslims that live in communities with a large number of Muslims and strong Muslim institutions to practice their Islam. I wouldn’t recommend that people go it alone if they do not have to.
All Muslim charities have not been closed down and Islamic Relief is an excellent example and zakah can and should be distributed first to the Muslims in your own locality.
I have encountered issues when praying in public as well but again if you were in a Muslim community in the US, you should be able to pray in the masjid or find a place where it is safe for you. Or if you plan your day accordingly, you should be able to fit in salaah in a place where it is safe.
Allah has not promised us a life without any trials, subhanAllah the trials and oppression that the people who came before us experienced was much greater than what we are currently experiencing. It is fine to go to a Muslim country if one feels that is better for them but that is not the answer for the majority of the 40 million Muslims living in the West.
We are going to forge ahead here and fight the battles so that our children will have it easier in sha Allah than we had it. And yes, you can raise your child to be on the deen here in the US even with all of the fitna but parents who cannot do this by all means should make hijra if that is better for them.
The problem with muslims now a days is that they don’t want to take responsibility for their actions. They want to blame all their problems on everyone else. The easiest people to blame everyones problems on are women. Most men feel it’s always the woman fault when getting raped and so forth but what about him not lowering his gaze and fearing Allah and realizing and the Day of Judgment that he will be answerable for his actions.
Your right to when you say that these people need to go back to their country. What are you doing in such a evil place as you so call put it? Go back to your pristine and wonderful country. And go live live happily ever after and pretend the world has no problems. We’re humans and we make mistakes and non one is perfect.
Muslims need to be responsible for their actions. Here in Saudi it’s the same thing. You can’t even go into a store and look at something with out having someone looking at you like you did something wrong for showing your eyes. I cover my face here in saudi and if i can count the amount of times i got lectured because some woman saw me looking at something and she felt i needed to cover my eyes because some man was watching me. Now have i done anything wrong? I have 4 kids trailing behind me and I’m looking for a dress for my mom in a busy market place. I am just minding my business. You know just because other peoples husbands, brothers, and fathers look around and don’t lower their gazes doesn’t mean you can go around blaming the women, especially is she dressed properly and acting decently in the open.
Once a teacher told all the women in our school that we were sinful because when we go out and show our eyes out in public and a man sees them then we get his sin for his zina. Can you believe it? I got up and gave her a piece of my mind in whatever arabic I could. Oh the state of the muslims now a days. May Allah guide us all.
Shame on all those who open further wounds on this bleeding Ummah and who claim to speak in our name. Shame on all those right-wing papers that pluck at ordinary people through the words they found somewhere. Shame on those Muslims who don’t respect the laws of their countries. Shame on all those natives who abuse all Muslims because they are the Other. Shame on all of us…because no one is perfect. Let him cast the first stone who hasn’t stone. Introspection. Self-criticism. Criticism of powers that controls us. That is progress.
Wooooooooo Hooooooooooooooo! I made it to this post via technorati. I still can’t navigate through here to any other post. I’ll go check my email.
Wow – Muslim Apple and Sheryza – It is so great to see your criticism of what is going on in the name of our religion!
Together we could be the triple tag team blogging sisters fighting against ignorance and stereotypes.